Some of the people there might not know the difference between a request and a commission. You may want to add that to the conversation.
It may be obvious to us as artists, but people who don't know or are new to the trade might not see it that way.

Thanks for the input :D

i know its a touchy topic. and if you choose not to go the route. totally understandable.

but the number of people who want to do art that havent even so much as looked into basic economics or business marketing is ridiculous.

And because of it the concept of supply and demand playing a part in pricing, is very feebly grasped, especially in this fandom.

I definitely intend to talk about that side of things. Here in Australia if you're on welfare, you're eligible for a program called "NEIS". I did it back in 2010. You do a 26 week course in small business management, you get a cert IV at the end of it. You have to do your business plan and you don't pass until they're satisfied that you can run your business. Then your centrelink payments get turned into NEIS payments for 1 year and you have a mentor that checks up on you snd your business every quarter and helps you with any problems you may face. Doing a business management course DEFINITELY helped as there's only so much you can learn about the legal and business side of things from the internet.

well no i wouldn't expect people to learn in depth things.

but even just grazing the top of economics through browsing is something, again, people seem to do very little,but it would help give at least something to go off of than blindly swining in the dark wondering why people aren't buying their work or why they're getting asked for tons of refunds due to lack of communicaiton and extremely slow production.

things like that aren't course required knoweldge. it's extreme basics.

anyhow i hope the panel goes well and increases the number of intuitive thinkers.

There's probably books you can buy, but when trying to recap in general a lot of the stuff I learned in the course I found it a little difficult to find all the information I was after. Someone teaching you in a short course was definitely a beneficial step up from just trying to learn on the internet (can be hard to find the info if you don't actually know what you're looking for). All the business side of things can be rather complicated and is different for each country.

Thanks! I hope I can help some artists to grow their business :)

I'd love to hear that panel if you get the chance to record it!

It seems I am allowed to :D

A course in Australia? where exactly? As far as I know, all the cons are done, except for EB Game expo and a small comic one.
Errr- I don't have advice, unfortunately... But I'm curious about listening.

If you're on centrelink, you're eligible for a program called "NEIS". You just have to go to your nearest centrelink office and ask about it. I did it back in 2010. You do a 26 week course in small business management, you get a cert IV at the end of it. You have to do your business plan and you don't pass until they're satisfied that you can run your business. Then your centrelink payments get turned into NEIS payments for 1 year and you have a mentor that checks up on you snd your business every quarter and helps you with any problems you may face.

I don't know what you mean by "As far as I know, all the cons are done, except for EB Game expo and a small comic one."? This convention is Chaoz, http://chaoz.com.au/ and Armageddon in Melbourne is only a couple months away.

I'm asking what the listeners would like to know, as I am doing a panel giving my advice/experiences :)

I just got temporary residency, so I don't think I can get it. But I'll look into it, so thank you.~

Ahhh, it's in Melbourne. Okay, that's fairly far from me.

Are you going to be recording your panel? I'd love to listen.

Ooh ok X3

Okie dokie :p

Yes it appears I am allowed to record it :D

I really need to get a better handle on the business end of things myself. It sounds like Australia has a great program for that, from reading your reply above. I need to figure out the best way to do taxes, but I'm sure that process is different here.

When I went into the tax office it was right at the end of the financial year when people were doing their tax returns. being a new officially run business that hadn't earnt any money yet I obviously didn't have to do a tax return, but I asked for help on what I need to do during the next year.

Being a sole trader here you only need to declare once a year. Tax here is basically 10% of your income, so if i put 10% of my earnings away in a bank account that has interest on it I will be fine. She said to keep spreadsheets of all my earnings and all expenses for the business. The tricky part is rent, internet/phone and electricity bills. Because it's your home, a lot of that stuff is personal and you can't claim personal stuff on tax. BUT you do use a percentage on the business (electricity for your computer and lights, internet for dealing with clients and marketing, rent for the space you work in etc) but the annoying part is figuring out WHAT percent is business. So basically once that's all sorted I just have to take in my spreadsheets of my income, spreadsheets of my expenses with receipts of those purchases, have that 10%+ tax ready to pay and then I pay the tax accountant to sort it all for me XD (and that payment to the accountant is also tax deductable haha).

All you'd really have to do is go in to your local tax agent and ask them for help and maybe find the website for your states tax and such and dig up information about running a business as a sole trader :)

I need to get in the habit of writing everything down. That's my biggest issue probably. :P

Make a spreadsheet, do it every 1-2 weeks. Or you'll feel like you're there for hours digging through receipts and stuff XC

Do you have any tips on how to set up the spreadsheet? Where to put what? :) Thanks!

Programs like Microsoft Word, Open Office, Kingsoft Office (which is free http://ksosoft.com/product/spreadsheets-free.html )

Basically you just make a new spreadsheet, make categories like date, payment type, total, name/item, tax etc.

For income I have the date, the TOTAL amount, then 3 separate categories of payments (paypal, direct bank and cash) to which I put the total from there into it's category (so if I got $60 in paypal but there was a $1.78 fee, I put $58.22 in the TOTAL, $60 in paypal and $1.78 in a paypal fee section). I put in who the payment was from (paypal name or company name, like Society6 when I get some money from selling items. Or just put "Prints" if it was a convention sale), and I have a section for tax just where I add up the total of income and deduct 10%.

For expenses I have date, what the expense was (what type of bill or item), who it was paid to (the company/store I paid the money to) and the total amount paid.


So long as you have the date, amount and who the payment was from/to, then you just kind of do the rest to your personal preferences really :)

That's super helpful, thank you!

Any time 8D

Well, from my own freelancing experience I only want to figure out one thing; How the hell do I get people to pay.

YA GOTTA FOOOORCE EM, ROPE EM IN AND TIE EM DOWN!! XD

Yeah that's pretty much the general consensus on the subject. Also, to make sure to get paid before any work starts, because people wont pay after it's done, and by then you've wasted a lot of time and money.

I learnt that the hard way doing freelance electronics development. "It's ok, I know these guys, they wont screw me over," bullshit…everyone will screw you over if you let them.

Heh yeah, some people will screw you over. I like sending official invoices to customers as I can even include terms of service if I wish and they have some form of buyer protection through paypal.

Yeah, paypal is a good thing for the small business. I didn't have this option back in the day.

And I must say, after doing months of work with programming and electronics development and getting paid for neither, I prefer not getting paid for programming. Then it's just my time that's been wasted. Feels less fun when you have a 700 eur expense for hardware that you wont ever get back, in addition to the two months it took to design and get them manufactured and shipped.

Freelancers everywhere; Written contracts and payment up front, always. No exceptions.

Yeah that sounds tough D: I know that when we hired some painters once we had to pay up front for the cost of materials and then pay for their time after that. Not too bad a deal in thay regard.

Sounds like a decent compromise.

I'd love to hear it plus i'm not lucky with commishes so i want to hear your opinion about that.
Still have problems because i can't get a job

Yeah it can be hard D:

Mostly if you can get hired because autism.
Some people don't take me because my attitudes or manners are weird that's what my mom say

Well, through text I never would have guessed you have autism. I have a lot of friends with Aspergers, and they seem to be able to get work in various areas. They can sometimes be a handful in person, but usually if I politely let them know if they're getting a bit loud or something they always do well to settle down :)

When dealing with commissioners, you don't have to be their friend and they don't have to know about your autism online. If you at least know how to talk professionally and to the point, they'll never know. If any sort of problems pop up with the commissioner complaining about something, simply apologize and do what you think is reasonable to make it up to them (like a free little sketch or if it's bad enough a partial refund). I don't have autism and I've made mistakes too. Nobody's perfect :)

The important thing with commissioners is CONTACT. Keep them up to date constantly. Post journals with your commission progress. Message them privately if there's been any delays. If they message you politely asking for an update, don't hesitate to update them politely. (If they get very rude and pushy about it, that's another matter but it's important to stay polite and professional and not get into drama).

A commissioner who has been waiting 2 months and not heard a single update, they'll be really angry and worried that you've run off and will never do their work.
A commissioner who has been waiting 12 months and had constant updates every 1-3 weeks is happy and patient and very happy when you do eventually get around to it.

A friend of mine with autism just started getting commissions to write stories on here :) So don't give up. Just do what you can do to learn about talking to people and try not to get too upset at a disgruntled customer ^^

I always try to be on time with all.
Drama well I had personal problems with people that make it public online. Thanks to that person i lost my best client.
I hate drama personaly and well autism makes me good in the areas of my interest english and art. What concer me more is my son that's why i collapse today emotionally i'm very weak at this moment.

Yeah, it can be hard. Some people will make drama no matter what you do, you just gotta brush it off and ignore those kinds of people.
It sounds like you need to be strong for him. If you have any close friends or a partner, don't hesitate to go to them for support. If dealing with commissioners will stress you out, perhaps just take some time out for yourself and try not to worry. It sounds to me like you need a nice hot cup of tea and to lose yourself in a book or something, to just relax. *hugs*

I being ignoring her for over years i had to take legal actions for her to stop.
Well my ex boyfriend suggest that and we talk with lawyers too.
Hopefully she set a public journal for so much years of bullying what hurt me the most it's that i use to think of her as a great friend. I don't have a close friends nor a partner now T-T

Yeah I don't know what's wrong with some people. I hope legal action helps.
Do you have anyone at all you can talk to or hang out with? Maybe seek out some new friends to grow bonds with :)

Well i have one good friend but i can't depend of him all the time.
So i'm on my own almost all the time.

I've been there! That's why I suggested maybe hunting for some new friends :)

Could i considered you a friend?
I know we are no so talkative but i'm following you for over a year i remember.
Also we are thinking with my mom to visit Australia. I have some family there.
I's going to be great to have someone to visit.

Sure I'll be your friend :)
That sounds awesome! Whereabouts is your family in Australia?

Sydney but there so much places to see and explore. I'd love to know the culture and food from there

Awesome ^^

Wish I could watch that panel hun.. And I also wish I was going to the con.. Sad face.. I'm really upset about this. No money to go anywhere atm D=

Aww D:

It seems I am allowed to record it at least!