Racism certainly isn't new, but it's been REALLY blowing up the past two years, and especially recently. Sadly I've noticed sexism is also VERY rampant as well, and it goes hand and hand. I was pretty saddened how many fellow gay men I met who were *extremely* misogynistic, racist or both.

I feel like in a lot of ways we were all terribly naive when it comes to thinking that racism and sexism were no longer an issue. It's only getting worse at the moment.

You really summed up what I was about to say

It's all the same cloth. I think it's safe to say while there is tons of blame to dish out, Cisgendered, white privilege men of various economic classes and education are a main force for this evil, At least the one's perpetuating this privilege and myth of racial purity.

It makes me so fucking sick to be on this planet, to be in this skin. I wish I was a pigeon but that doesn't help. Feeling remorseful, guilty, afraid doesn't push this away. Gotta raise your voice, be apart of it. Because it's not a matter of waiting for it to go away, you gotta stand up, you gotta fight it. I'll see y'all on the field.

"Wow what is with racism and sexism lately?"
"I think the problem with this world is an entire race and gender."
You people are just incapable of seeing irony aren't you?

No, no, I wasn't making any judgments toward anyone. I'm saying that a lot of people I've met in the last year have been both fairly racist and sexist to a disturbing level. There's a problem when meeting someone when in the first minutes they're calling women disgusting, saying they should remain in the kitchen, or using strong racial epithets. Come a few years ago I wasn't seeing this, and certainly not when meeting someone for the first time. I find it especially odd coming from gay men.

Not sure what you mean by "you people" here.

I was referring to what Kolossal said. Proceeding to blame racism on white men and implying being white has inherent advantages in an ironically racist fashion.
And "you people" I mean SJW types in general.

At this point I'm not so much examining blame or where racism originates (which sociologically would take a thesis to outline). Only that I've sadly been seeing it a lot lately more overt ways, like a trend that really shouldn't be happening. I am under the belief that all people regardless of gender, skin color or sexuality be treated as people equally, each deserving respect. If that gets me labeled as 'swj', then so be it.

i already said i was talking about kolossal's statement and not you.

Pieeeeeerce Stop jumping, you so huffy lately. Im not talking about all white men , Im talking about white men within a particular population group. You know, the one that voted for trump? I'm white, but I don't think it is my whiteness that makes me racist, its the ideas of american exceptionalism, Gender superiority, that grows rank within that particular branch of the white male american public Which has grown. It's not the nature of their race and gender but the result it has given them. We've done behavioral studies in sociology and I can tell you this conclusion is no different then regular population behavior studies. The loudest voices in the past two years on race and gender have come from that particular branch.

Never blamed a whole race, said one group within that race has a lot of the blame to shoulder. Which is true Pierce come on, we've all seen the rallies, the people putting the posters up at schools. They all happily fit into one self identifying group. I don't even have to identify it, they do it proudly

When ever I see people complain about racism and talk about how one race is not helping I always see some one jump to the "thats racist " Card. Why? I use to cause I felt guilty, but now I KNOW there are entire groups of people that push the wheel of racism because of their own racism and racial pride. Not trying to offend you, but it's obvious.

What I don't understand is how your upset about the irony of racism within racisim while indicating a possible negative opinion about SJW's at the same time? I mean I find that confusing dude. D: Also I'm not a SJW because I feel a very large unease towards gender and race I don't know why you're calling me that.

Were you cranky this morning bud? :/ You don't often seem this ..Iunno, aggressive in your arguments. Though, I mean the last thing you said to me, in a long while, wasn't exactly supportive either

You're right, we do see a lot of racism in America being supported. Anti-white racism.
Unless white privilege is the privilege of being beaten for your race and the only reason it's charged as a hate crime is for UNRELATED REASONS http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/us/ch.....-live-beating/. The privilege of shooting a violent criminal in self defense and being called an evil racist for it because he happened to be black, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot....._Michael_Brown the privilege of college professors calling for white genocide and barely getting into any shit for it https://heatst.com/culture-wars/dre.....-keep-his-job/, while saying anything about any other race would have for sure meant being reprimanded. The privilege of businesses being incentivized to hire other races before you, even if they're equally qualified.

You're right, I have seen the race-fueled rallies though. The ones where people call for deaths of another race, calls of violence, cause mass property damage and riot! All the while the media paints them as saints. What are those called again? Hmmm... oh, oh yeah! Black Lives Matter that's it!

All these acts of racism being SUPPORTED by the public opinion! But you would never see the media take a stance against a black person in a race issue, and if there's so much evidence against a minority they HAVE to side against him, they are damn quick to backpedal to it not being a race issue anymore.

Do I think this is any fault of black people? Fuck no. So I'd never say something as audacious as it being some privilege inherent in being part of a race. This is PURELY ideological. And to think white supremacy is at all anything but a small, unsupported fringe is dumb. The worst fucking thing you can be in society today is a racist, it is the most damning thing one can be. The only exception? If you're marginalizing/stereotyping white people. That is practically fetishized.

There is no white privilege cisgender whatever to blame for racism, you blame each individual person involved in a racist behavior for their racist behavior. Don't even give me "I was just talking that most of them were white people it's just circumstantial i didn't mean it's a problem with BEING white!" when your statement was proceeded by you saying you're GUILTY for BEING WHITE.
You're GUILTY for a fact you could not change at birth. Not for any action you've committed, you said yourself you don't think you're racist. But you're still guilty for simply being a white man? You think your race is a problem. You think a race makes you less or gives you guilt; makes you part of a problem. That's racist.

You know what, I will concede one thing. White supremacy probably does look like it's growing a little bit. But do you know why? Because god damn it does look like white people are under attack as of late. I can for sure see that making idiots who think race matters a lot become more outspoken. But these people are actively shunned by society still, and are of no problem.

And before you go "But Trump!" Trump isn't racist.

Okay, Relax man.

I hear what you are saying. But Honest I feel that the majority of any group should realize their responsibilities. America had alot of racism out of the 50 going forward and Im not surprised white people feel afraid "something is being taken from them" When people of color vent long overdue resentment of historical treatment... but there is a point dude where we have to call on Dunning Kruger effect. a lot of people talk about racism when they have no business discussing something they never studied. A lot of those voices and ruining the discussion as well and I agree, Individual assessment is a reality, its likely the truth but you're ignoring tribalism and all its effects. People group together and prevent the wearing down of their beliefs through denialism. We see this all over the world no mater what country you're in.

I hear you talking alot about BLM but You surely have seen the trump rallies that had racists there as well, with signs. Or the ruining of murals and racist slogans on the rise. And It does come back to "white Americans feeling threatened" that something is being taken from them, but when you're more likely to be incarcerated for drug possession as a black man when white people are statistically more likely to abuse drugs, something is wrong with how the majority (whites) have organized who passes judgement in law.

And I won't comment on trump being racist or not, I don't see him being an active racist. but I don't care. Never minding his comments on gender, how he behaves during press conferences or when taking questions, or even the whole grab em by the pussy comments, none of that factors into how I view his ability to be a president, its his inability to run his own businesses, his flipflopping, inability to fill seats in the state department, inability to communicate with his staff. Even his supporters are now turning on him and I don't blame them. Damn right we needed change in the west, but surely someone who at least read a presidential biography was a better choice.

Honestly pierce I think we might disagree on alot of political matters, but Im sure you and I can come to agreement on other things in the name of progression

Also I don't think anyone is being guilty of being white. I think people are guilty being white- and not checking their own privileged in their group. denying black people aren't treated differently is delusional. as the majority with control, white people owe the rest a responsibility to ensure personal judgement isn't based in racial assumptions. that is where being white and privledge come into play.

When you're in control, you are responsibility for being able to do something to solve an issue. and that is why I feel white people have a duty to check themselves

I am calm. You're just incorrect and cultural marxist ways of thinking is catastrophic for western society.
White privilege doesn't exist. And no don't try and pull the "You're just white you're scared of losing your privilege :^)" condescending shit on me, I'd say my boyfriend has a stronger opinion than me when it comes to this and he's mexican. And even so that's irrelevant what race I am or he is, and it's disgusting I often need to bring this up to break through to people like you.
So what if there were racists at Trump rallies? Did Trump rallies burn down buildings and cause riots that shut down cities? Did Trump rallies call for deaths to police? Did Trump rallies encourage a shooter to shoot up white police officers? Did Trump rallies cause beatings?
Because you think some people committed the crime of thinking in a racist way, does not equate to people actually committing violence. People should allowed to be racist. As long as the eyes of the law are not. You can't go around thought policing.
This collectivist bull is cancer. White people don't owe black people anything, black people don't owe white people anything. Because black and white people should not be treated as hiveminds.

History is completely irrelevant when it comes to how people are treated now. Because we didn't make those racist laws, we never owned slaves. Black people may be in disproportionate levels of poverty nowadays, but that's because their ancestors were mistreated. But we're not mistreating them now. White people born into poor families suffer the same struggles of black people born into poor families, but that's purely an economic issue. It's very hard to claw your way out of the economic class you're born into no matter what race. So of course in a country where in the past black people were repressed that there's going to be a higher number of black poor people, but no one alive today took part in those actions, and these laws have been revoked.

It's like if a woman was raped and impregnated and you scolded the son because his father was a rapist. He benefited from his father's actions, sure (He was born/is alive) but he had no say in his father's actions. He didn't commit the rape.

Black people born today are owed /nothing/ more than white people. Inherited sin is something you'd expect out of cooky religious folks, but it's becoming a mainstream idea among left-wing people. You were born the wrong skin color so you're required to be subservient to other races because your ancestors mistreated their ancestors? Everyone is under the same protections of the law, and all cases of racism should be dealt with on a case by case basis, instead of creating an us vs them.
I am a liberal, an actual liberal, as in I treat people as people and don't buy into treating a race as an identity of a person. I don't buy into this leftist ideologue trash.

Can you even tell me what "white privilege" is by the way? Like what privileges do white people have over black? Do you have any facts that don't involve attributing false motives?

I really don't want to get into this with you because it WONT be constructive for either of us.
Im sure we can find things to discuss that align with our core values without getting into a heated argument.
I feel very strongly in a different way, not 100% the way you described me as, but different.

I also started this all with a positive journal about individualism and how it is the mind that matters. and then I stated my opinion , even more directly I said I "Think" I know where the blame lies. It's an opinion and it wasn't a militant one, but you came into this taking an opinion REALLY to heart and lambasting me over it for paragraphs and paragraphs. If you wanna tote the free speech argument equivalency about how I can have my say and you yours I can't accept a near overwhelming response as constructive dialog dude. you should also tote fairness, in that I'm REALLY sure none of this deserved the amount of energy you put into it.

I'm REALLY not that committed to changing some ones mind online in an age of trump. Id rather foster what we have in common.

Also im not asking people of color to BLAME WHITES or whites to FEEL guilty for the sins of their fathers. IVE made the sins of our fathers argument before, exactly as you have. Im saying that white people need to keep their eyes out for other white people who actively take advantage of other peoples selective treatment of others. I've met people in decision making positions who toted anti black and race mixing views. Guess what? I reported it, why? Because some one making decisions about people shouldn't be ignored when they clearly favor one group over another. that's a privilege and corruption of rational thinking

That's all fine and dandy. But when you start using racist terms like white privilege, I am going to correct you. If you use them publicly, I am going to correct you publicly. Because you've backpedaled a lot from your original argument now, probably because overall you aren't a crazy person and can see I'm correct.
If you want to say people need to look out and be caring for one another, say it. Don't have an addendum of "ESPECIALLY THOSE WHITE MEN." because that's irrelevant.

If i were to say that people need to stop attacking each other, especially black people. Would that not seem racist to you? Of course it would. Because it would be.

The more you perpetuate myths like white privilege, the more you're essentially telling people to feel bad for their race and demonizing white people.
Not only are you demonizing white people, but you're patronizing minorities by saying they require whitey's help to get anywhere in life. You're denying them their agency.

I don't think you know how serious of a problem this is.

Fucking elementary schoolers in some schools are being taught that if you're white, you are automatically racist and need to fight your base, racist instincts.
Imagine if they were teaching that black people need to fight their hot african blood from making them aggressive? It's the same racist shit but for a different color.

The BBC in England was, and still might be, actively denying white people from employment because they are white. And they're being open about it.

It's not these white supremacists who are the problem, They will always be a joke, and yes, be sure to shut them down when they try and speak up. But shut them down with facts, not censorship and insults. That's what I mean by shutting down, prove them wrong. When you start saying "x" group shouldn't be allowed to talk, then people will start just associate anyone who they wish ti silence with said group.
That's what is happening nowadays. Right wing politics are considered racist as a way to discredit them without addressing substance. This is cancerous and dangerous and sets a precedent of certain speech and ideas being okay to actively censor.
But that's just it. Shut down white supremacists as an idea. Don't associate white supremacists with white people. Much like I don't associate black lives matter with black people as a whole.
I don't think you are racist, but you seem unwittingly indoctrinated into a racist ideology masquerading as "progressivism"

I also want to say I don't hate you. You seem chill overall. So don't take this as a personal attack. In everything good a person does I wish them nothing but success and happiness, but in everything bad they do I wish them nothing but failure. And if you're making these statements publicly, I will address them publicly. Sorry if it's more heated than expected, but this isn't a lighthearted issue.

No no, I know you don't hate me, I just feel we are going to have VERY diverging views on the subject.. I disagree on alot of things and maybe I instinctively backpedal in favour of reducing hostility...but I still feel strongly on white privilege, racism, the responsibilities of majority power and control. I'm not a Marxist, Im a free capitalist (while the enviroment calls for it, technocrat if we reach a singularity) but with regulation cause I also believe the big ol ship were on, earth, should be regarded as such and we should have long term planing in terms of how we interact with it- for OUR longevity.

Admittedly I am socialist, you probably know that though cause I rant about it alot. But keep in mind I come from canada, Newfoundland particular. My upbringing was community based, lots of government based services including health care and education. I really appreciate those things, and I really think they should be expanded, streamlined and more research should be done to make the primary sector more efficient. Those national views have really shaped how I feel about my country and I know " im Canadian! Why should I comment on american issues" I admit, that may seem shortsighted but.. Alot of our tourism is american, a lot of the people living here out of country are american, our tv mostly american. They have a huge influence on us, and we collectively as a society have seen an increase in "Alt right" or outright anti imigrant and anti black incidence occurring as spill over, but we're not use to that at all. We're SUPER multicultural. We do have prejudice for sure, and what I or alot of us call outright racism, but it's honestly different compared to the USA. We're gonna view this topic very differently, and honestly I KNOW we view a lot of things differently in the political spectrum, and I take the subject seriously..just really not in the perspective you do. We're gonna to view this like being from two different religions with different creation stories - we should recognize that and not get heated and angry with each other.

And that's okay. You had your say, I had mine. I respect you take your view on this seriously and a lot of our disagreement is likely mutual miscommunication or diverging geographic based world views, and I'm confident that after a lot of time and change in the world some of our ideas will be outdated overall. You know I'm chill, but I have my reasons for feeling strongly on this and I hope you and I could come to a smart agreement on where to put our energy to good, co-operative use on real problems we can both identify in the world. Ya know? I'm all about advancing technology, seeing ways around concrete issues that our species faces. Im sure you do too.

Also I don't disagree with what your saying about how the argument can be viewed to reduce a persons agency but I really don't think you understand my meaning on some of these issues.

there are issues in majority societies that tend towards tribalism and I think there should be more self policing and denouncement of groups that use hate speech and the "deserving because of history" Complex to place themselves over others. Keep in mind that in Canada, and this is how I was raised, if you say something racist, about anyone. If you use slang or discriminatory terms towards lgbtq with intent to offend - you are committing a crime. like, REALLY. We don't have free speech, we have protected speech with exceptions on hate speech. So we have a lot baked into our core when it comes to how we react to the language we've seen being used and who we see using it.

When I see a majority group, inspiring others of their demographics and representing influences in government, I call to all people of that demographic to be vigilant of corruption. Hate grows in patterns, in groups and we need to address it in groups. An insurance company wont charge a person at 30 the same as some one at 19, because statistics. When we see intentional hate crime in Canada, directed towards people of color be it assault or vandalism, the perpetrators are nearly always white. It would be a waste of resources to spread anti hate crime awareness among every race or community when statistically one is causing the majority of the problem in our(canadian)society, so we have community targeted programs. Yea I know, it is racist in a way. I guess, When doctors target their younger patients for std awareness it IS because of their age, not their knowledge. When doctors screen more of their black paitents for heart disease it IS because they are black, because genetically speaking they would be more susceptible to certain conditions. The intention behind the act is important ( im sure you appreciate that perspective). If we see problems within a certain demographic hell yes I think we should have a more targeted effort towards solving it there. And I honestly feel shame is one of the best behavior changes. I see young white college bound white men rallying in some pretty anti immigrant anti non white views and we see growth in that demographic so we should look to that demographic and say enough is enough, check yourself. We probably disagree a lot here man But Im no warrior for this perspective. I put co-operation above infighting.

What? Are you calling me racist ? O_o

We are TAUGHT in school that race DOES have inherent advantages, from health to mental illness.

But im not talking about race in the biological perspective. Im talking about how one race has found itself thinking it'self better through learned behavior overtime. I never even used the word inherent, I said privilege. Privileged doesn't have to be a birthright, and it can obtained

And for fucks sake Piece, Im obviously not talking about ALL OF RACISM, but I see what you did there, condensing my argument down to make it appear I can blame a whole race on racism.

Clearly we need context.

We see a lot for racism lately in AMERICA, in THIS decade And we know that white people played a huge role in perpetuating it. We can't ignore Jim Crow laws and their impact, or the trump rallies, or the comment boards which have be come far more racist. we are TAUGHT this in Highschool in canada, in university.

Im not saying being white makes billy a supremacist and a racist. But billy being white in a country that has built up a mindset that billy is more trustworthy than anyone that doesnt look like him, sets billy up to be advantaged by his skin. Not billy's fault, but when billy goes to a rally , or online, talking about how his life is better and he doesnt what it to change, doesnt want his selective treatment to end, thats a bad thing

Hey now, condensing makes for good quotes but not accurate ones.

I fucking hear that. People aren't even bothering to be on the dl about it anymore. It disgusts me.
Every single day I find myself either unfollowing or straight up blocking people for their racist, transphobic, white power bullshit. People I've followed for years admiring.

This past year in particular this bullshit has been on the incline. My old high school, an art school with a pretty accepting and diverse community was vandalized with all this #meninist, racist, misogynistic bullshit. It broke my heart. Our murals were destroyed. walls covered in swastikas.
I'm so sick of fighting this. I'm of the belief this world is too far gone to ever recover. If people can't learn and change from the shit that happened 85 years ago on such a worldwide massive scale, this world deserves to burn. People are shit and forever will be.

Awh man :/

Stay strong. There is always going to be push back. Push back from the real racists and the ones too uncomfortable to move.

People who feel the slightest guilt will always grandstrand to cover it up, which means lashing out in "self defense"

The sad part is that the entire race issue doesn't just fall on a specific race. Can it be said that recently a larger group of white men have been the epitome of the hate revolving around misogyny and racism? Well when it's all you see on a day to day basis it's difficult not to think otherwise, BUT. And I capitalized for a reason. Racism and hate believe it or not runs around the world in numbers you wouldn't believe because you might just not know about it. Maybe the media just can't focus on all of it?

A young American girl being ridiculed and thrown stones at in Holland from people who's culture and religion don't pertain to said Country is still racism and misogyny. If you want to summarize all of these complicated terms and "sensitive" issues constantly rotating around it just comes down to hate. I cant say the white male is the only one spinning hate at every corner. Is it a more major issue? Possibly? But I see it in just about every race. I see it in just about every religion. It DOESN'T matter who says it, who does it. IT has to stop and I agree with Kolossal 100%. Take care everyone, be safe, and remember, even though there's plenty of negativity rolling around, know that this world is fighting and refuses to succumb to the hate that's spreading.

Thanks Tush.
despite what some people here argue..
I never thought or said that white people are to blame, but in america at least, when they hold legislative control, and majority control, they have responsibility and capacity to work towards something progressive, for EVERYONE. when they do, I view them collectively as complicit with doing nothing. And if it is shame that helps them be motivated, im all for it.

They have the responsibility to give everyone the same opportunities, not distribute poor people evenly among all races. If there are moor poor white people, or more poor black people, or more poor asian people, it shouldn't matter. As long as none of them are being treated differently because of their race, they don't need to be artificially elevated because they are a minority in a bad situation. Equality of outcome is the idea of the anti-liberals.

Alright, You made your point

Like if you felt so strongly about this then why didnt you consider we have had a working relationship, we've had exchanges and chated. Heck I have respect for you, why didnt you just take me aside and tell me how you felt? instead of writing a research paper on why IM iggnorant and crazy?

Seriously Pierce :/

i find that the most discrimination and racist things ,hateful stuff (which is often self hate)that i see takes place from people within my same race which might be surprising to some, but its highly observable,it goes pretty deep. it most likely happens within all groups though at some varying degrees, ive never seen or met any gay racist, that seems really bizarre .And i do see that whites generally have advantages over others sometimes when it comes to things like employment, housing and many other things,there are all kinds of studies on these.I may even experience this stuff at times without even really being aware of it, I usually don't like to think about or dwell on these things , but i know it very well exist within some out there

I hope you don't often get discriminated against :/ You're a sweetheart

oh i havnt had too many bad experiences in my life fortunately, but lots of hateful discrimination stuff happen to women in my group from same group which is contradicting and self-hate, hair/skin tone etc, and then i see heaps and heaps of horrible racist things that people say how they truly feel all over the internet , people in high positions that are making our local laws get exposed too