hear hear!

Seems more like a corruption problem.

That said, if you have enough money to bribe officials five digits to kill an animal, you have too much money.

The incident DID occur in Zimbabwe, so corruption is normal there. The two "guides" will buy their "not Guilty" verdicts and go right back to what they were doing before.

the only thing my cat hunts are flies, wasps and moths.

Cats have an excuse. They're hardwired as predators. People have a choice.

And this guy didn't ill one lion; he killed about 11. Cecil and any of his cubs not strong enough to defend themselves, since a lion taking over a pride kills all the previous lion's cubs.

AND he's been in trouble before for participating in an illegal hunt.

Sport-Hunting is a pest >,>

Agreed. Though the radio mentioned that some companies sell 'green hunting', where they 'hunt' with tranquilliser darts, give the tranquillised animal a medical checkup then release it, which I suppose works.

That ain't "hunting".

It's more like a mugging.

Or an alien abduction. Take your pick.

Haha, alien abduction.

Still, at least the animal gets some benefit - not least the tabloid journal payout!

Alien abduction? Complete with a through anal probing? Quick, alert the Star and the Enquirer,

Haha! Tranquilized, abducted, probed, and electro-ejacked. That sounds like a feral bondage fetish.

Bet ya a nickle that's someone's fetish here on FA, celebrated in both art and story. Whee, ain't the fandom great?

Yes! ^_^

Thanks to the laws of Quantom Fetish Dynamics, if it wasn't here before, it is now, and back-dated so it's actually been here for years.

I disagree. Hunting is the process of localizing, tracking, identifying, and closing on the target. Killing is just one possible end to the hunt.

Yep.
Alien abduction.

I played with the idea in a fictional language I've tinkered with off and on. "Ik" is their word meaning "end of hunt", and the specific type of end (kill, failure, abandonment, coup, etc.) is dependent on context and inflection, even though scholars tend to translate it as "death".

Seems like it would've been so much cooler if he just took pictures with the lion. What a waste.

I'm glad this finally got some press about these safaris. This and canned hints have been going on for years, I used to live near a canned-hunt Farm in upstate New York where wealthy people went to hunt all sorts of critters that were raised for the purpose and I mean large antelope, not quail or chukkar partridges or something. It was so bizarre.

Here's an idea. Why don't they re-enact that famous story "The Most Dangerous Game" with the good Doctor as the prey.

Too many permissions required.

Better idea.
Lobby to make "The Purge" a REAL THING!

Obviously it's not a shared mindset... But how is this sport trophy hunting still considered impressive? Can we redefine "game animal" to only include prey that is hunted primarily for food?

How is car racing considered impressive? It's just a bunch of fools going as fast as they can in a circle. Yet people love Nascar. I don't get it, either.

As for prey animals = food.... I'm not sure that works, either, since some animals considered delicacies are sometimes hunted to extinction because rich people want to eat them.

Maybe what we really need is rehab for money-squandering rich bastards who consider it worthwhile to drop $65,000 on a safari rather than spend it on something stupid, like their children's education.

The only valid reason for hunting are: I need to eat that animal. The animal is eating/contamiating the food I am planning on eating later. The animal is spreading disease. The animal is suffering and has no expectation of recovoring. The animal is attacking me or mine.

All this dentist was doing was compensating for an undersized penis or other perceived inadequacy.

Imagine a morphic lion hunting dentists...

I don't think so. Vicky's late father was a dentist... and a damn good one.

oopsie. didn't know that one... perhaps better said That Particular Dentist.... he is feeling heat for it already, as he has been booted from the Safari Club International for this rash killing of the King of Beasts.

Sounds right to me. I can get along fine with hunters – just not sport hunters.

A fella I used to work with used to go out at deer season and get himself four or five --with a bow and arrow. He'd then take the deer to a commercial place that specialized in "game-meat" and have it dressed. butchered and packaged. He then used it to supplement his groceries the rest of the year.

I got no argument with this guy at all.

When I could get out to hunt, anything I hunted I ate. I Hunted regular rifle, Muzzle loading rifle, and bow and arrow.

Since he's gone into hiding, it's his turn to be hunted down.

Yeah, by the media. Unfortunately, the media have short attention spans.

unless there are countless rampages to be had.

http://www.amazon.com/Lafcadio-Lion.....verstein+books

'Nuf said...

I wish this picture would be true
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8422/.....2819b0999d.jpg

Well, I wouldn't mind

No kidding. My family has some hunters in it, and they're firmly on the level of 'don't kill what you cannot eat and don't waste a DAMN morsel'.
On top of that, Tumblr's SJWs are on a tizzy about this. Of course we're all angry, but we're lucky we found out more because
Cecil was a collared lion. On top of that, Oxford is probably QUITE pissed at the dentist who shot him.

Yeah, trophy hunting never took off in Iceland. If you're not gonna eat the animal, why kill it? Unless it's a mink, then you kill it to defend animals you are gonna eat.

And to have the fur?

I'm having a hard time picturing anything living in Iceland that you could hunt... are there introduced game animals running about in the wild?

Of a sort. Some idiot imported minks, to raise for their fur...which of course escaped, and are now wiping out the bird population. There's a shoot on sight policy for those bloodthirsty vermin. And there's a couple flocks of reindeer in the highlands. But the price of hunting permits for those, limit 'em to the rich.

As someone who has some admiration for lions, I've felt sorry about Cecil. Like the others, I understand the killing an animal is only fine if there is a purpose for taking that life. Such good reasons include out of defense of self or other people, defense of any animals you keep, livestock or pets, if you're going to eat the creature in question, or or it has rabies or the like.

At my house, me and my mother would have to kill flies and ants if they get inside our house if nessecary. I don't like killing the insects but we need to keep ouir house clean and possiblly our food safe.

I wouldn't categorize the killing of insect pests as "hunting". For one thing, insects are --in general-- not endangered. For another, they've been known to shoot back. (wasps, jiggers, spiders etc) And thirdly you do not, by killing one bug, guarantee the death of others. Hunting Cecil guaranteed his cubs will be killed by the next pride-leader. So this guy didn't just kill one lion, he murdered a family.

For fun.

I wouldn't categorize the killing of insect pests as "hunting".
You've never had to track down that buzzing mosquito?

I am not one to be bothered by buzzing. Usually I remain oblivious until I'm stung, then there is no reason to hunt for anything. I know where it is.

However, my father greatly disliked insect noises and once, when troubled during the night by an obnoxious cricket, went hunting for the offender and found him wedged behind the stove. Unable to get to the cricket personally, he went in search of a spray-can of pesticide only to find there were none in the house. He finally had to settle for spritzing it with a jug of glass cleaner. It didn't silence the cricket, but he was the shiniest bug around.

Understandable. Not to mention lions are more glorious in my opinion. I couldn't help but rant with soemthing to add to the conversation.

I've heard of the possiblity of Cecil's cubs being kiiled in a take-over by another male lion. In fact, I've red about this fact beffore how if for some reason a lion would take over another lion's pride and kill that othwer male's cubs so that the first male would agressively take over the pride and give the lioness his cubs. It's a very teeble siruation, I agree.

I also, read how at one time lions were very common not just in Africa but all over in Europe amd most of Asia. Now they squared down to Africa and perhaps a little in India. Their plight with being endangered is similar to the problems with wolves, another wild predator animal I admire.

I totally agree, no one should kill innocent animals for sport!
Those who hunt for food do so to provide food for their family. And there's no problem with that....

There were multiple dicks in this event. The dentist, the guilds and the organization that permitted it. Sadly people are only flipping shit over this cause it was a known and beloved park lion. Yet hundreds of lions are killed and few say squat about them.

Personally I could never just trophy hunt, you hunt it, you eat it!

I have less trouble with trophy hunting than I do with killing at-risk or endangered species, animals lured from preserves, and other sorts of uncaring conduct. If you want a trophy, go for something that's a current menace, not one that used to be -- get a trophy made from a pile of invasive species!

BTW, I'd love to go on a safari and hunt some big game..... With a camera!

I wouldn't go as far as you said, but what was done to that lion goes way beyond any reasonable conduct. From what I've heard it was more like baiting your neighbor's guard dog off their property so you could claim it was trespassing.

I've long held the words of Cleveland Amory, founder of the Fund for Animals, in high esteem. He once proclaimed, "I support the right to ARM BEARS."

So, if Cecil and other animals were trained to use weapons and could defend themselves -- even if they weren't very good at it (let's say they make a kill 2-3 times out of every 10) -- then I might consider this activity a "sport." As it is, just just a giant, outdoor shooting gallery with live targets. "Sport" hunting is an outdated practice that should have been consigned to the scrap heap of history decades ago.

It could be argued that, in fact, lions, tigers and bears ARE armed with what amount to spears and daggers. As long as any hunter is willing to also use spears and daggers, I would shrug and say have-at. ---Which is why I have no real argument with the African tribal tradition (Zulu, I think) of hunting lions with a spear as a right of passage. One on one like that, the lion has an even chance.

There are three real crimes here. This lion was half-tame. He saw nothing to fear in people. So killing him was like shooting the neighbor's cat. Two, this death will lead to the deaths of cubs sired by Cecil, so it's not just "one lion" who died. It is a generation of them. Three: This was a wanton waste of money. $65,000 for the joy of killing a half-tame feral pet!

There is nothing brave or manly about any of this.

Zulu, massai, and a handful of other tribes that don't wander much across the plains and have lifestock.

half american indian here.... eat what you kill and don't kill to make your dick feel less pathetic.

Great comeback to someone who makes a point of showing you their trophy room...

So... When did you first notice that you were feeling sexually inadequate?

you made me snicker. have a free no strings <3

;^; makes me really sad, poor kitty, not to mention to lil babies that'll die when a new lion comes around right? :/
They've driven animals to extinction for the dumbest reasons like ivory, or sport, or "delicacies" and for invading THEIR home...
I wish it was banned... murdering an animal for something it has naturally or to stick it's head on your wall... :(

Yea I'm not gonna jump to any conclusions given that I don't have all the info.

I thought we were past the times of lynching people, but perhaps I am mistaken.

It's certain that Dr Palmer killed the lion. It's certain he paid a lot of money to do so. And it's certain that he has illegally killed an animal before. He says he thought the hunt was legal. Whether this is true or not is, of course, difficult to prove.

The figure given for the cost of this safari was $65.000. $55,000 to the guides who lured said lion off the preserve and (presumably) $10,000 for transportation, equipment, and misc. I would be curious to know what a legit safari costs. If it is considerably less, then Dr Palmer had to know it was hinky in some way.

Also this was a very distinctive-looking lion. A kind of feral celebrity. Even if Palmer didn't recognize him, the guides probably did.

It really comes down to this, unless you are hungry or in danger, there is no reason to kill a wild animal. Cecil was a danger to no one. He was living on a preserve where he served as a major tourist attraction. Luring him off that preserve was a damned dirty trick.

Dr Palmer evidently made a habit of big-game hunting. If he spent as much going after the rhino and elephant he was photographed with, then his guy has spent an APPALLING about of money on this habit. My dad was a dentist. A damned good dentist. But he never had this much cash to throw around.

Nowhere have I seen any mention of a wife or kids for Dr Palmer, so --if he's single-- maybe he doesn't have to worry about mortgages and college funds, but geez!

(My mother suggests that if he is married, he probably keeps his wife in his trophy-room, stuffed and standing next to the rhino.)

This reply isn't directed at you personally Vicky, it's just my thoughts after coming into contact with this story and reading around to see what the fuss is about.

Quite frankly, I am ashamed to be an American given the response to this issue all over the country and internet.

He illegally killed a cat. Write him a fine or whatever and be done with it.

The amount of hypocrisy surrounding this issue is nauseating. So he got enjoyment out of the killing of a cat. I am getting enjoyment out of the pepperoni on the pizza I am eating. We all use animals in various ways for various purposes. That cat had more of a chance of survival than the animal that is now my pizza topping, yet I'm not seeing these hypocrites going 100% vegan.

So the only justifiable reason to kill an animal is for food or self defense? Says who? What standard are you using that is isn't just ones own subjective opinion? There are plenty of people who say that food isn't a valid reason to kill animals either. Are they wrong? Why?

One can't get away from this story if they try. Quite a few of the people criticizing this man need to write a written apology to him for for their outrageous and shameful behavior. People are making and signs and memorials to a CAT?!?! There would be less outrage if he had hunted and killed a human in Africa.

I know this isn't the politically correct opinion, but it's quite disturbing that as a culture we are perfectly happy stringing people up like this. All we need are some white hoods and burning crosses and we're back in the 1950s. Only other difference is the skin color of the person getting lynched.

I refuse to participate in such insanity. Within a year most of those foaming at the mouth over this won't even remember the cat or the guy and gleefully march away to the next witch hunt.

Uh... What are you defending here? The right to kill for fun? No one has a *right* to kill. You have a right to defend yourself. You have a right to survive. Hanging stuffed heads on your wall because your dink is too small? That's not a "right"; that's a pathology.

And yes. It's a cat. Yes. There is a good deal less outrage if the victim is human. That's the fault of the news media, who report such deaths so often, people become immune to it. Personally, I will interested to see what happens to the "Price Tag" (no idea why it's called that) Israeli group that burned a 18 month old to death, probably killed his mother (90% burns) and seriously wounded his 4 year old brother because they happened to be Palestinians. Yeah, Cecil was a cat, but he was also an innocent. If Dr Palmer wants to do something useful, why doesn't he shoot the assholes who burned a baby to death?

Then someone might actually send him flowers.

Lion meat isn't half bad.

Problem is that this whole Cecil thing is pure wag the dog, or lion in this case.

Go ahead and Google "cecil the lion" - I checked all 25 pages and not a single one had a story about him older than five days.

Now pull up his wiki and check the history - the oldest post to it is also five days.

Look through FA for journals and art featuring him - not a single one older than the initial announcement of his passing

Not a single person expressing outrage ever heard of this lion until the media decided that it'd make a great distraction till the whole Planned Parenthood organlegging story blew over.

Maybe so, but it doesn't stop it from being a damned dirty trick.

What dirty trick?

The guy was bow hunting, not sitting in a tower with a high powered rifle rolling it from a mile away.

It was a night hunt so there was no way to ID the lion as having been collared.

He had a valid permit and was hunting in a valid area - not his fault the lion didn't know to stay out of the hunting area.

Additionally, he came forward voluntarily.

The only dirty trick was the media turning him into the most hated man on the planet to protect a company whose VP admitted it kills and harvests the organs of liveborn children.

Sometimes, if we get, if someone delivers before we get to see them for a procedure, then we are intact.

That's a million times evil then ganking an overgrown cat.

The only dirty trick was the media turning him into the most hated man on the planet to protect a company whose VP admitted it kills and harvests the organs of liveborn children.
Bollocks. Both the idea that the 'Cecil' story is a deliberate conspiracy, and the bogus story about Planned Parenthood.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/o.....hood.html?_r=3)
The full video of the lunch meeting, over two hours long and released by the Center for Medical Progress after complaints by Planned Parenthood, shows something very different from what these critics claim. Clearly, the shorter version was edited to eliminate statements by Dr. Nucatola explaining that Planned Parenthood does not profit from tissue donation, which requires the clear consent of the patient. Planned Parenthood affiliates only accept money — between $30 and $100 per specimen, according to Dr. Nucatola — to cover costs associated with collecting and transporting the tissue. “This is not something with any revenue stream that affiliates are looking at,” she said. Under federal law, facilities may be reimbursed for costs associated with fetal tissue donation, like transportation and storage.

Conservative nutbars thrive on conspiracy theories and will concoct any number lies to support them. Claiming that the Cecil story was somehow invented by the mass media to divert attention away from another, more political story is simply false -- and utterly ridiculous. But an even bigger lie is that Cecil had somehow "strayed" out of his sanctuary. That's the "dirty trick" Vicky alluded to: Cecil was actually lured out of the sanctuary by Dr. Palmer's accomplices:

According to the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force, the lion was shot with a crossbow after he was lured out of the sanctuary, following the scent of food.

And it gets worse:

Cecil, well known to those who visited Hwange National Park in western Zimbabwe for his jet black mane, was only injured by the arrow. The hunters tracked him for about two days before he was killed with a gun, conservation officials said. He was beheaded and skinned, his corpse left to rot. (emphasis added -TK)

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/30/u.....lmer.html?_r=0

So while this "hunter" wasn't sitting in a tower, he still dispatched the lion -- who was wounded and suffering for days -- with a high-powered rifle.

The more I learn about this story, the more disgusted I become.

Conservative nutbars thrive on conspiracy theories and will concoct any number lies to support them.

Awesome - then prove you're right by doing the same two things I challenged May to pull off:

1) Find a story about Cecil that dates from before July of this year
2) Study the scores of photos of Cecil and find one of him wearing that huge tracking collar they claim he was wearing

After all, if he's adored by millions and world famous then finding old stories will be easy.

If he really was wearing a tracking collar then finding a photo of him wearing it will be just as easy.

If you're just another liberal who's lying and attacking the person because he can't attack the facts though, you won't be able to do those things.

1) Find a story about Cecil that dates from before July of this year
Victoria Falls Guide, March 2014. Mentions Cecil and another lion, Jerico.

2) Study the scores of photos of Cecil and find one of him wearing that huge tracking collar they claim he was wearing
You mean THIS collar?
(Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-33733722 )

After all, if he's adored by millions and world famous then finding old stories will be easy.
If he really was wearing a tracking collar then finding a photo of him wearing it will be just as easy.
It was easy. Surprisingly so, in fact. Have you not heard of "Google"?

If you're just another liberal who's lying and attacking the person because he can't attack the facts though, you won't be able to do those things.
Since I was able to accomplish those things, then I guess I'm not just another lying liberal, eh?

That pathetic jab might mean something, if it weren't for the fact you call EVERYONE who disagrees with you a "liar" or a "liberal" or other, less polite epithets. You are constantly attacking others and, by your own admission, YOU are the one who can't "attack the facts."

However, as long as we're talking about lies, let's recap, shall we?

Lie #1: You claimed Palmer was hunting lions legally (he was not).

Lie #2: You claimed Cecil had wandered out of the part on his own (he was lured out).

Lie #3: You claimed that, by coming forward, Palmer couldn't possibly be guilty of poaching. But the Zimbabwe government doesn't seem to agree and wants him extradited to face charges of poaching AND bribery. It wasn't until days later -- after he was safely back in the U.S. -- that Palmer admitted he killed Cecil, and only then after his accomplices ratted him out and his involvement in Cecil's death became widely known. What a paragon of virtue!

Regardless, someone here is probably lying. But I don't think it's me.

Here are two simple challenges for you Mayfurr

1) Find a story about Cecil that dates from before July of this year
2) Study the scores of photos of Cecil and find one of him wearing that huge tracking collar they claim he was wearing

As for PP being bogus, you do realize that the full, unedited videos are also available, right?

Sometimes, if we get, if someone delivers before we get to see them for a procedure, then we are intact.

So that's the VP admitting they have live born children but they kill/let them die and harvest them anyway - that's called murder.

We’d have to do a little bit of training with the providers or something to make sure that they don’t crush

There he is admitting that they alter the abortion process to earn more money - also illegal.

Sorry May, but Cecil is an invented story to distract idiots and provide a smoke screen for PP's organlegging operations.

Given that you obviously didn't bother reading the article I linked to which explicitly stated what the full unedited content of the PP video really contained and there was NO so-called "organlegging" going on in the manner that you claim, AND Tim_Kangaroo has already responded to and debunked your claim about the Cecil story being some kind of cover for that so-called "organlegging", I can only conclude you're either ignorant, deliberately ignoring convenient facts for political partisanship or your tin-foil hat is slipping.

It looks like the reactionary mustelid has scampered back under his rock, having had his nose rhetorically rapped with my virtual rolled-up newspaper. A smart person would lay low until this all blows over in the hope that most will eventually forget his embarrassing comments. But while Skunky has a high opinion of his imagined cleverness, he has never struck me as being very smart. We shall see.

In the meantime, there are more updates (in case anyone else has read this far): There are reports that Cecil's brother, Jericho (mentioned in the Victoria Falls newsletter I linked to earlier), has taken over the care and protection of Cecil's cubs. If true, then this is good news, indeed (ignore the headline -- Jericho is still alive):

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/01/world.....egally-killed/

And now, I must get back to the sinister left-wing conspiracy to take over the world! Toodles!

Distilled version: Someone who gets off on hurting* or killing others is fucked in the head. Responsible sustenance hunting I have no issue with, nor valid self defense.



*Well, non-consensually.

*Raises fist in salute*

sad story, but only one of many. and as long as the society in these countries won't change this will continue to happen... until Africa loses what's maybe most valued all over the world: the gorgeous nature.

it reminds me what I've read in a book about african lions, published a decade ago:
Botswana started to allow trophy hunting, mostly lions, because they thought they had enough. many big-game-"hunters" were apparently waiting in line, dishing out much needed money to kill a lion. of course they only likked males... after a while lions from other countries wandered in, taking over the now vacant tribes, killing off the cubs, only to be shot dead soon after by another "hunter". while the females were almost conctantly carrying new litter, which was killed off by new males taking over the tribe, and so on, creating a vicious, brutal cycle. the authors even witnessed from afar how one "hunter" cynically shot a male off the female's back... so they went and talked to Botswana's authorities.
they seem to have been successful, after all there are still lions roaming that country nowadays.